An Interview With Dana Winsmith

Dana Winsmith’s story, “Proprioception”, was a favorite of the editorial staff for the 2023 issue of The Idaho Review. Here, staff member Kira Compton interviews the author on her writing process.

IR: I'm always fascinated by the drafting process of short stories, especially longer ones like "Proprioception" (Issue 21, 2023). What was the process like on this story?

DW: To be honest, I don’t remember much of the early drafting process because I started writing it almost three years ago! I’m pretty sure I spent a long time just thinking about it and making notes at first. With short stories I usually want to have a pretty solid idea of the whole thing in my head before I start writing. I do remember that I wrote the bulk of the first draft on a self-created Airbnb writing retreat. Then I submitted a very patchy version of it to my writing group and they helped me fill in the gaps and figure out issues with plot and pacing. My brilliant mentor Molly Prentiss read a subsequent draft, and then I think I spent another month or two editing it and making changes on a smaller scale before sending it out. 

IR: The scope of this story is immense--an entire lifetime, really. As you explored Natalie's life, did you instinctively know what to include? Or was it trial and error? Are there other moments in her life sitting in a word doc somewhere?

DW": My wonderful college writing professor Blanche Boyd used to talk a lot about cause and effect, and how it could be used as connective tissue in a story to make each plot move feel satisfying and earned. She often talked about structure in terms of “A happens, then B happens, and as a result, C happens.” I had always thought about that structure in finite terms, but with this story I wanted to see if I could make it work with three moments over a lifetime. I was also really interested in the idea that each moment could impact a different generation of this family, and that neither Natalie nor the reader could have foreseen that there would be such lasting consequences of her actions. So that was how I decided what to include - I started with the first section and jumped forward to what I thought would be a surprising and impactful consequence of that time, and then did the same for the final section. 

IR: You're currently working on your first novel. Have you found it very different from short story writing? What's the good, the bad, and the ugly of novel writing for you so far? 

DW: It is so different! In a way I feel they are almost completely separate art forms. I have even found myself using different voices for each—with short stories I tend to gravitate toward first person, whereas my novel is told in multiple third. I think what I love most about novel writing is getting to spend years living in the same world with the same characters. It’s almost like living another life alongside your real life. I love my characters so much and feel so invested in them, and that has been the driving force for me from the beginning. I also really enjoy the freedom of a longer project, especially in the first draft where you have so much room to explore and experiment. 

As for the difficult parts, I always struggle when the writing starts to feel like a chore. I used to force myself through those moods, but I have realized that for me it’s sometimes better to take a break and work on something else for a little while. My first draft was over a thousand pages, and when I reread it I found that I could always spot the places where I had forced it, whereas I didn’t even recognize the places where I had taken long breaks and then come back to it. The second draft is a very different process, and right now I’m trying to navigate the shift from the playful freedom of the first draft into a more focused revision mindset. When it starts to feel tedious, it always helps me to revisit the scenes I feel are working best. And I think with any project it’s important to stay connected to the original spark of the idea and remember what got you excited about it in the first place.

IR: There've been a lot of brilliant writers coming out of the Brooklyn College MFA in the last few years. Any anecdotes you'd like to share from your time in the fiction program?

DW: I loved the program! You hear a lot about the positives and negatives of getting an MFA, but for me it was only positive. My classmates are so talented and it was a very warm and supportive atmosphere. Josh Henkin, who runs the program, puts an incredible amount of work and time into making it what it is. 

My class was lucky enough to study with Sigrid Nunez, and one of my favorite memories was when she won the National Book Award. We had class with her the next day and there was a massive snowstorm, and we brought her champagne and a cake that got all wet from the snow and rain. It was so exciting, especially since she’s had such a long and beautiful career and really deserved that recognition. 

IR: Something that doesn't get talked about a lot is the drudgery of the submission process. It sometimes feels like divine intervention is necessary for a story to land on the right desk at the right time. How long did it take you to get "Proprioception" published? Any thoughts on the submission process?

DW: That is so true! I started submitting this story about a year and a half before it was accepted by The Idaho Review. During my MFA program I read for the Brooklyn Review, and what I realized is that submitting to a magazine is basically asking one person if they like one piece of your writing at one particular moment. If you’re lucky (as I was with you!), that first person might like your piece and pass it on to other readers. But if your work doesn’t appeal to their personal taste, or they’re in a bad mood, or the magazine is already publishing something similar to your story, that may be all it takes to get a rejection. It’s hard to remember that when the rejections start piling up, especially the impersonal ones, but so much of it is luck. I do think there is value in submitting widely, because you never know who is paying attention to your work even if you get a rejection. I received 29 rejections on this story but 10 of them were personalized or positive in some way, and now I’m starting with those magazines for my next round of submissions. It can be a very long and soul-crushing process, but it does feel worth it when someone finally acknowledges your work and gets excited about it.  

IR: Are there any life habits that you've found to help your creative process?

DW: The biggest one for me is just reading as much as I can. I find that it’s almost impossible for me to write if I’m not consistently reading things I’m excited about. During the pandemic I found myself doing a lot of rereading, and now I revisit certain books and short stories over and over. I find that great writing is like an activating force for my own work. Often I will spend half an hour or so reading before I start writing, and it never fails to energize me creatively. 

I also love to see other artists’ processes, across all mediums. There have been some amazing retrospectives in New York in the past few years, and one of my favorite things is to see early drafts of the works we think of as masterpieces. The Whitney had an Edward Hopper exhibit recently, and seeing his early rough sketches, especially the ones of “Nighthawks,” was a highlight for me. You always wonder if the artist would have wanted us to see the early drafts, but selfishly I’m so glad we have the ones we do! 

IR: What's one thing you've read in the past year that you can't stop thinking about?

DW: Speaking of Sigrid Nunez, I recently read her book The Last of Her Kind. I adore her work but somehow I had missed this book earlier, and when I came across it I felt like I had found a hundred dollar bill in my pocket. There is such intimacy and warmth about her writing, and she is one of those writers who has an absolutely unique voice. I think I could blindly read one of her paragraphs and know that it was her. This book follows a handful of characters from the late sixties through the next few decades, and she manages to vividly conjure a whole era of American history while also telling a deeply personal and riveting story. I am in awe of the way she is able to capture big emotions - yearning, nostalgia, the ache of memory - in a very understated way, while also giving us plenty of humor and lightness. Reading her work so often gives me that feeling you get with great writers where they perfectly articulate something you never could put into words or even knew other people felt. It took me weeks to finish it because I never wanted it to end!